"The Global Resurgence Of Spyker"

[IVR007]

Artega went bankrupt, paragon ag bought the rest and said they would discontinue car production. Maybe Spyker scooped the rights to the artega gt.

[Spyker 240]

Maybe I'm the only one, but for me this is a sad chinese influence story: Taking an Artega GT (price 75.000,--) putting a different body on the chassis, creating a nice interior and naming it "Venator", doubling the price is not what I would expect from a dutch supercar manufacturer named Spyker. For me it's the Way chinese companies would work. If the basis of the "Venator" is the Artega GT it should have been named "Airtiger", which sounds closer to the original.
Kill me for my words, but I am a very disappointed Spyker-Enthusiast ... .

[Reddingius]

I can certainly understand what you're coming from. Badge-engineering isn't engineering in my book. On the other hand the brand is in a rather bad place right now and this low-cost solution might make them enough money to get cracking at some proper Spyker developments. If it's the only way, well I'll take it. One other thing I don't like: Muller, who I admire greatly, claims to be the designer of the B6, and the Aileron as well. At first I thought that was a bit charlatan-ish of him. Let's face it, he's not a trained desingner and it shows. Certain bits of his designs of late have been over the top. (referring in part to the air scoops on the aileron and the many, many aviation references) On the other hand I think this 'little experience' approach is a very positive thing. It allows Spyker to break with design conventions and come up with something 'naively' refreshing. This is what I've loved Spyker's designs for.
What struck me though, is that it is always made to appear as though VM is solely responsible for the design of his cars. This can hardly be, considering designer Michiel v/d Brink used to work for Spyker. I've never seen him credited for it, let alone mentioned. Michiel was replaced by Simon Koop, and the D8, Aileron and B6 were designed at least in part by him. Again, no mention of him anywhere. I find it kind of bothersome that VM would take credit for a design without giving credit where credit is due. Maybe my opinion on the whole thing is distorted or wrong, or I'm nitpicking, but this is what I think about it.

[Mattjs33]

To me, as long as the Ailerons get made, I have no problem with a lower-cost, higher-volume model being based off of another chassis. At this point Spyker needs product, any product, and if they can get this to market they can start to bring in some cash again.

It's not as if it's a rebodied Focus or something pedestrian; it's still a pretty unique chassis. I don't think Spyker has the resources or time to come up with another unique chassis.

Anyway we're talking about two Spyker car lines in production at once, isn't that remarkable considering where they've been?

[OnTheLam]

I tend to agree. This is a business, it needs sales. If the B6 is based on the German chassis, well, that got good reviews for handling and performance. And the B6 is clearly a Spyker design and interior. So what's the problem here? Don't worry, be happy.

And, having met Victor, if he says he designed a car, I believe that means he took the drawing on his napkin to Lotus, or whoever, and they helped him realize his vision.

I get tired of hearing how untrained non-specialists couldn't possibly design a car. Tell that to Horatio Pagani and Christian Von Koenigsegg.

[Spyker 240]

When I am saying I am disappointed it is about two things:
First of all I respect Spyker as a car manufacturer and engineering
company of truly outstanding cars made of bespoke materials. About
the "Venator" it could be, that they are going back to their roots to be
a coachbuilder only putting a different body on an already existing platform.
Using a "carbon reinforced plastic body" is not what I understand hearing "bespoke
materials". Also I don't think that a VW V6 engine coming from a VW Passat including
a double clutch gearbox you can have in every VW Golf GTD doesn't sound very "bespoke".
Secondly I don't feel weel about taking a product, "tuning" it opticalwhise and selling it for
double the price. Of course you can try making money this way, but the same time you disrespect your customer and, that's what I feel, your enthusiasts.

[Spyker 240]

All that said before is, of course, only, IF the platform of the "Venator" is the Artega GT ... .

[amzamz]

The doors open in a conventional way, not like previous Spykers...

... as you see here.

[AirHH]

All that said before is, of course, only, IF the platform of the "Venator" is the Artega GT ... .

I worked a long time on the development of the Artega GT and drove it for a while. I'm absolutly sure, the technical base IS the GT.

If you think the ceased Artega GT is not a good base yopu should simply try it. It's not just a VW-passat with a different setup.

The Artega GT uses the 3.6l 300hp engine from the passat R36, the DSG-Gearbox has a special setup (mechanical) for the Artega.
Interiours and even a Cluster-Instrument are Artega specific except for some small parts.
It has ABS and ESP especially setup for the GT with different setup modes, Airbags, it's Crash-tested.
And if you check the reviews on the Artega you'll see that none of the testers stated that they we're driving just a Passat.
Since Artega went bankrupt I think it's great that this car or it's technical base which is developed to a very good state will be the base for other cars.
I don't see anything wrong in what Spyker does. They'll make a lot modifications to the car, so there is enough room to make a unique Spyker from it. And the Artega GT is out of production!

[Spyker 240]

I never said the Artega GT was or is a bad sportscar.
Within it's limits: That means, a price with 80k, with competitors
like Porsche Cayman and Audi TTRS. And "only" 300hp.
Here I can also accept an engine lend from a Passat and a gearbox
from VW, too.
But gentlemen: Spyker wants to play in the supercar league !
The Venator definitely is none, if you don't see the price being
doubled to the one that the Artega GT was sold for.
Beside this I never compared the Venator to a Passat.
I compared it to the Artega GT, and that's, as you say, what it is ... .
So finishing my argumentation: I would better buy an Artega from
the showroom (there are still some left) than buying a Venator for more
than double the price.

[Mattjs33]

AirHH, that VR6 engine, is it similar to the one they used in the R32 Golf a few years ago? There was one that ran around here I used to see a lot, and that thing sounded wicked! If Spyker puts their usual exhaust treatment on it, I'm sure the sound won't disappoint.

I hear what you are saying Spyker240, but to me while Spyker frequently gets lumped into the "Supercar" realm, they are something completely different. Not even so much like Aston, who can sometimes be said to be more style than performance. Spyker to me is a lot about unique style elements and design, fantastic interiors made out of stuff that came from rocks and animals, and not necessarily all-out performance numbers. On this I think the Venator delivers.

It wouldn't be too much different than what Audi does with its A4 which is essentially a Passat. The Venator gets more people into the Spyker fold, so that they can aspire to one day get to the completely bespoke Aileron. This will generate a lot of brand awareness and aspiration for their higher end products.

The only problem I have with it is I'd like to see them here sooner than a year and a half!

[AirHH]

AirHH, that VR6 engine, is it similar to the one they used in the R32 Golf a few years ago?

The R32 and R36 engine are both based on the same engine block and even Audi uses it. It's not just in the Golf and Passat, but even available in CC and EOS.

I think Spyker will use the exhaust developed by/for Artega. It makes a good sound. The first versions where much too loud. But the final version has a nice sound...

And even the behaviour of the engine is modified compared to the VW-models. The company IAV (which does a lot development for VW) engineered a lot of the drivetrain package and configuration, additionally Artega Engineers had even a big influence on the details. So finally it's really a sportscar approach and has nothing to do anymore with a Golf or Passat.
e.g. fresh air concept is specifically designed and optimized, water and oil cooling is specific and bigger than normal.

[AirHH]

Within it's limits: That means, a price with 80k,

The final base price for the Artega was roughly above 80k, but individually configured cars had a list price of approx. 110k to 120k.
So the gap isn't that big.
If you add some bucks for more power and finer interiour and exteriour on the Spyker then it should be ok.

[Spyker 240]

The price you give for the Artega is including VAT (19%).
The price for the "Venator" (125 - 150k) is excluding
tax. So including tax (german VAT) without any options you end at
150 - 180k.
Again: I would choose the original Artega GT.
But you are right. Everyone should make bis own decission ... .

[bilen]

The Artega was much lighter, 1100kg (wiki), also a lot shorter ~30 cm.
Mike Kimberley, CEO Lotus 2006-2009, is also available for a chat or a drink at the Spyker stand in Geneva. MJK retired due to medical reasons. He is feeling better today (everything is relative he still has to have pain killing injection in to his spine every month or so) and want the work in the automotive industry again. According to his son on a Lotus forum.
Lotus Engineering were prefered supplier to Spyker in several areas when developing the Aileron.
Would have betted on the Evora being the base but the wheelbase does not match, but nor does it match the Artega GT.